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	<title>Comments on: Logical Flaws in Nine Best Arguments Against Torture Investigation</title>
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	<link>http://www.publicani.com/logical-flaws-in-nine-best-arguments-against-torture-investigation/</link>
	<description>We've accepted spreading the wealth. What about spreading the intellect? Think it won't happen? It's already happening.</description>
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		<title>By: Zak Maymin</title>
		<link>http://www.publicani.com/logical-flaws-in-nine-best-arguments-against-torture-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-16349</link>
		<dc:creator>Zak Maymin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2010 22:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.publicani.com/?p=455#comment-16349</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Randall. Corrected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Randall. Corrected.</p>
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		<title>By: randall</title>
		<link>http://www.publicani.com/logical-flaws-in-nine-best-arguments-against-torture-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-16348</link>
		<dc:creator>randall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2010 22:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.publicani.com/?p=455#comment-16348</guid>
		<description>I hope I wasn&#039;t the only person to notice that in the line:
&quot; This is a politically motivated which hunt.&quot;
&quot;which&quot; is used incorrectly and should have been &quot;witch.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope I wasn&#8217;t the only person to notice that in the line:<br />
&#8221; This is a politically motivated which hunt.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;which&#8221; is used incorrectly and should have been &#8220;witch.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Moral Freedom</title>
		<link>http://www.publicani.com/logical-flaws-in-nine-best-arguments-against-torture-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-8384</link>
		<dc:creator>Moral Freedom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 05:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.publicani.com/?p=455#comment-8384</guid>
		<description>Would you please post more articles?  I would like to read more like &#039;the mathematical proof that this is right or that is wrong&#039; or the &#039;nine ways...&#039;  I like these.  Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would you please post more articles?  I would like to read more like &#8216;the mathematical proof that this is right or that is wrong&#8217; or the &#8216;nine ways&#8230;&#8217;  I like these.  Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Lady Freedom</title>
		<link>http://www.publicani.com/logical-flaws-in-nine-best-arguments-against-torture-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-7961</link>
		<dc:creator>Lady Freedom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:20:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.publicani.com/?p=455#comment-7961</guid>
		<description>I couldn&#039;t break away from reading this.  I wish there were other articles to go to that are like this one.  Great post, great comments.

Really alive and invigorating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t break away from reading this.  I wish there were other articles to go to that are like this one.  Great post, great comments.</p>
<p>Really alive and invigorating.</p>
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		<title>By: Zak Maymin</title>
		<link>http://www.publicani.com/logical-flaws-in-nine-best-arguments-against-torture-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-7894</link>
		<dc:creator>Zak Maymin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 19:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.publicani.com/?p=455#comment-7894</guid>
		<description>6 COMMENTS FROM OPEDNEWS.COM	

&lt;strong&gt;I would even go further&lt;/strong&gt;

Obama said: &quot;For those who carried out some of these operations within the four corners of legal opinions or guidance that had been provided from the White House, I do not think it&#039;s appropriate for them to be prosecuted.&quot; But why not?

Nuremberg Principle IV states:

    &quot;The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him.&quot;

 by Zak Maymin 
_____________	

&lt;strong&gt;one comment&lt;/strong&gt;

all it takes for evil to suceed is for a few good men to be silent.A famous quote and an honest one.if we are silent about torture it will continue and include us next time.

by liberalsrock
____________

&lt;strong&gt;Reply: We are already included&lt;/strong&gt;

They read our emails, listen to our conversations, and follow our cells without warrants. Plus we learned that the Homeland Security consider us - be it conservatives, or Ron Paul followers, or veterans, or just people who don&#039;t like the big government - as terrorists or potential terrorists.
For some reason what scares me the most is the fact that Homeland Security is going to save $52 million in office supplies. In freaking office supply!

by Zak Maymin 
_____________

&lt;strong&gt;A Buick is not a car&lt;/strong&gt;

One often hears that America is a constitutional republic, not a democracy.

But this is completely wrong.  A constitutional republic is a type of democracy.

You have only to ask yourself, how are the representatives in a constitutional republic selected?

A: They are selected democratically.

Thus, to say America is not a democracy is like saying a Buick is not a car. 

by  Perry Logan
 ________________

&lt;strong&gt;Reply: Ah, semantic wordplay&lt;/strong&gt;

There&#039;s a difference between a democratically elected republic and a pure democracy, and you know it. It&#039;s the same way there is a difference between a school bus and a prison bus. Yeah, they&#039;re both buses. Yeah, a republic is a type of democracy where democracy is interpreted broadly to mean any kind of political institution where people have some kind of vote about something. But by that interpretation, even shareholders and company bylaws are all a type of democracy. But the word has no interesting meaning.

In this context, the author&#039;s point #4 is that we elect representatives, we don&#039;t vote on issues. And therefore the representatives have a duty to make the right decision, even if it means disagreeing with the majority of their constituents.

In a democracy, the majority can vote to kill the minority and the only ones responsible are the voters. In a republic, if the elected officials vote to kill the minority, under the claim that that&#039;s what the majority wants, they are still the ones morally responsible (in addition to the majority).

Try driving a Buick where every passenger gets a vote on whether to turn left or right, and then you&#039;ll know the difference between electing a driver and voting for every speed bump.

by Man B. Free 
___________

&lt;strong&gt;A carriage is a car...&lt;/strong&gt;

… because it has wheels.

Our Constitutional Republic has similarity to democracy in using democratic process to elect representatives to pass new laws. The critical difference is in the Constitution limiting the powers of the government and protecting individual liberties.

Our founders feared a purely democratic government. They knew that “a democracy can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.” (Alexander Taylor?)

The Pledge of Allegiance refers to our country as a Republic and our constitution and the Declaration of Independence do not mention the word “democracy”.

Article IV Section 4 of the Constitution states:  &quot;The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government, and shall protect each  of them against Invasion . . .

James Madison, Federalist Paper No. 10:
 In a pure democracy, &quot;there is nothing to check the inducement to sacrifice the weaker party or the obnoxious individual.&quot;

At the 1787 Constitutional Convention, Edmund Randolph said, &quot;... that in tracing these evils to their origin every man had found it in the turbulence and follies of democracy.&quot;

John Adams said, &quot;Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There was never a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.&quot;

Chief Justice John Marshall observed,
&quot;Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.&quot;

By Zak Maymin
__________</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>6 COMMENTS FROM OPEDNEWS.COM	</p>
<p><strong>I would even go further</strong></p>
<p>Obama said: &#8220;For those who carried out some of these operations within the four corners of legal opinions or guidance that had been provided from the White House, I do not think it&#8217;s appropriate for them to be prosecuted.&#8221; But why not?</p>
<p>Nuremberg Principle IV states:</p>
<p>    &#8220;The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him.&#8221;</p>
<p> by Zak Maymin<br />
_____________	</p>
<p><strong>one comment</strong></p>
<p>all it takes for evil to suceed is for a few good men to be silent.A famous quote and an honest one.if we are silent about torture it will continue and include us next time.</p>
<p>by liberalsrock<br />
____________</p>
<p><strong>Reply: We are already included</strong></p>
<p>They read our emails, listen to our conversations, and follow our cells without warrants. Plus we learned that the Homeland Security consider us &#8211; be it conservatives, or Ron Paul followers, or veterans, or just people who don&#8217;t like the big government &#8211; as terrorists or potential terrorists.<br />
For some reason what scares me the most is the fact that Homeland Security is going to save $52 million in office supplies. In freaking office supply!</p>
<p>by Zak Maymin<br />
_____________</p>
<p><strong>A Buick is not a car</strong></p>
<p>One often hears that America is a constitutional republic, not a democracy.</p>
<p>But this is completely wrong.  A constitutional republic is a type of democracy.</p>
<p>You have only to ask yourself, how are the representatives in a constitutional republic selected?</p>
<p>A: They are selected democratically.</p>
<p>Thus, to say America is not a democracy is like saying a Buick is not a car. </p>
<p>by  Perry Logan<br />
 ________________</p>
<p><strong>Reply: Ah, semantic wordplay</strong></p>
<p>There&#8217;s a difference between a democratically elected republic and a pure democracy, and you know it. It&#8217;s the same way there is a difference between a school bus and a prison bus. Yeah, they&#8217;re both buses. Yeah, a republic is a type of democracy where democracy is interpreted broadly to mean any kind of political institution where people have some kind of vote about something. But by that interpretation, even shareholders and company bylaws are all a type of democracy. But the word has no interesting meaning.</p>
<p>In this context, the author&#8217;s point #4 is that we elect representatives, we don&#8217;t vote on issues. And therefore the representatives have a duty to make the right decision, even if it means disagreeing with the majority of their constituents.</p>
<p>In a democracy, the majority can vote to kill the minority and the only ones responsible are the voters. In a republic, if the elected officials vote to kill the minority, under the claim that that&#8217;s what the majority wants, they are still the ones morally responsible (in addition to the majority).</p>
<p>Try driving a Buick where every passenger gets a vote on whether to turn left or right, and then you&#8217;ll know the difference between electing a driver and voting for every speed bump.</p>
<p>by Man B. Free<br />
___________</p>
<p><strong>A carriage is a car&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>… because it has wheels.</p>
<p>Our Constitutional Republic has similarity to democracy in using democratic process to elect representatives to pass new laws. The critical difference is in the Constitution limiting the powers of the government and protecting individual liberties.</p>
<p>Our founders feared a purely democratic government. They knew that “a democracy can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.” (Alexander Taylor?)</p>
<p>The Pledge of Allegiance refers to our country as a Republic and our constitution and the Declaration of Independence do not mention the word “democracy”.</p>
<p>Article IV Section 4 of the Constitution states:  &#8220;The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government, and shall protect each  of them against Invasion . . .</p>
<p>James Madison, Federalist Paper No. 10:<br />
 In a pure democracy, &#8220;there is nothing to check the inducement to sacrifice the weaker party or the obnoxious individual.&#8221;</p>
<p>At the 1787 Constitutional Convention, Edmund Randolph said, &#8220;&#8230; that in tracing these evils to their origin every man had found it in the turbulence and follies of democracy.&#8221;</p>
<p>John Adams said, &#8220;Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There was never a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.&#8221;</p>
<p>Chief Justice John Marshall observed,<br />
&#8220;Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.&#8221;</p>
<p>By Zak Maymin<br />
__________</p>
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		<title>By: Zak Maymin</title>
		<link>http://www.publicani.com/logical-flaws-in-nine-best-arguments-against-torture-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-7831</link>
		<dc:creator>Zak Maymin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.publicani.com/?p=455#comment-7831</guid>
		<description>Would you care to explain? Am I not allowed to criticize something happening in the real world because it&#039;s happening in the real world? We have corrupt politicians in the real world who act against the Constitution, we should just accept it? 
And what does it mean &quot;intellectual arguments&quot; as oppose to arguments based on how the real world operate? Should I give the names of the people from the real world with whom I argue? I do. Shoud I give the references for all the facts? I do. Should I use logic and try to be rational in my arguments? I do.
So give me an example of the real world argument. I hope you don&#039;t mean the argument that starts with &quot;the majority people agree,&quot; because it really doesn&#039;t matter, or with &quot;the reality is,&quot; tha phrase that everybody uses on TV and that means nothing, except of the implicit insult.  
I&#039;ve heard O&#039;Really when he loses his arguments with his opponents often say that they use intellectual arguments, it&#039;s all theoretical, as oppose to himself, who&#039;s arguments are based on how the real world operates. I hope you mean something different.
I am really curious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would you care to explain? Am I not allowed to criticize something happening in the real world because it&#8217;s happening in the real world? We have corrupt politicians in the real world who act against the Constitution, we should just accept it?<br />
And what does it mean &#8220;intellectual arguments&#8221; as oppose to arguments based on how the real world operate? Should I give the names of the people from the real world with whom I argue? I do. Shoud I give the references for all the facts? I do. Should I use logic and try to be rational in my arguments? I do.<br />
So give me an example of the real world argument. I hope you don&#8217;t mean the argument that starts with &#8220;the majority people agree,&#8221; because it really doesn&#8217;t matter, or with &#8220;the reality is,&#8221; tha phrase that everybody uses on TV and that means nothing, except of the implicit insult.<br />
I&#8217;ve heard O&#8217;Really when he loses his arguments with his opponents often say that they use intellectual arguments, it&#8217;s all theoretical, as oppose to himself, who&#8217;s arguments are based on how the real world operates. I hope you mean something different.<br />
I am really curious.</p>
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		<title>By: Critical Reader</title>
		<link>http://www.publicani.com/logical-flaws-in-nine-best-arguments-against-torture-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-7830</link>
		<dc:creator>Critical Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:44:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.publicani.com/?p=455#comment-7830</guid>
		<description>Your arguments are all intellectual, based on concepts, not in any way based on how things operate in the real world.  Your devotion to intellectualism has to have an equal foundation in the real world and how things work, not how you wish they would work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your arguments are all intellectual, based on concepts, not in any way based on how things operate in the real world.  Your devotion to intellectualism has to have an equal foundation in the real world and how things work, not how you wish they would work.</p>
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